Archive for Retribution

Have the paladin changes restored game balance?

With the recent changes to the paladin class, particularly the nerf to retribution paladins, has Blizzard restored balance to the game…or made the paladin class less playable?

Response to Paladin Changes - Posted by Ghostcrawler (Source)

We don’t nerf anyone due to public outcry. If we did, there would probably be 1-2 classes left that were even PvP viable. :) At most seeing a lot of QQ about one class might get us to look at the numbers to see if there is any truth to the matter. However I will say that in this case there were so many people telling us the same thing that it’s hard to come up with an explanation for how they can all be wrong and some of the Ret paladins be right. (I say “some” because several Ret paladins admit they were killing stuff to fast.)

We collect a lot of data from both Beta and the live servers, and Ret paladins were killing people very quickly and often, especialy at level 70. Even after the nerfs, they are still very good at 70.

It’s never fun to nerf anyone and we know the boards are going to be on fire for several days when we do it. It’s our fault that the imbalance existed in the first place and we needed to take steps to correct it. Players are understandably nervous about the new world order with all of the changes we’ve made to classes and combat. Most of them, I am confident, want to see balance problems fixed quickly.

We would like to hear your opinions and ideas on keeping the paladin class playable. How would you define the paladin spec?

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Paladin changes in Patch 3.0.2

Patch 3.0.2 is out this week, and should be live on all the servers. The updated skills and talents list has been posted at mmo-champion:

  • Holy
  • Protection
  • Retribution
  • Talent List
  • Talent Calculator
  • Major nerf for ret paladins, and there’s a lot of talk in the forums about how ret paladins are OP. What do you think about the change?

    Ret Paladin Changes - Posted by Ghostcrawler (Source)

    As I stated yesterday, we are happy with Ret’s PvE damage and sustatined damage in PvP, but were concerned that the burst damage in PvP could be too high. We discussed this for literally hours yesterday, which was certainly not the first time we have discussed the issue. Thus I hope these changes are not perceived as a knee-jerk reaction, but I am sure that will depend a great deal on which class you play. :)

    Divine Storm — the damage was changed from Holy to Physical. As you know, Holy damage is almost never mitigated and this talent could pack a lot into a very short time. This is a nerf to the ability’s damage. This change is now active on Live.

    Repentance — this ability now lasts for only 6 seconds in PvP (down from 10). Obviously this is also a nerf. This change is also active on Live.

    Art of War — now affects all damage done by Judgements, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm (instead of critical strike damage). Net dps should be about the same but less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13.

    Righteous Vengeance — now applies a dot affect similar to Deep Wounds (instead of critical strike damage). This ends up being a significant buff to the ability to make up for the damage lost to Divine Storm, but is also less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13. EDIT: The dot will NOT break Repentance.

    Glyph of Crusader Strike — now reduces mana cost (instead of increased damage on stunned targets.) We thought paladins could stack too much damage vs. stunned targets. This change will be made before Nov 13.

    We also fixed a bug with Seal and Judgement of Light that could sometimes result in too much healing.

    In our tests, Retribution dps remains the same over longer periods of time, but they can’t do quite so much damage in the initial few seconds of a PvP encounter.

    I know Ret pallies feel a little picked on since we’ve made this mistake before of having them come out the gate too strong and then had to correct them. For that I do apologize. It’s a difficult spec to balance since part of its design is to have large crits and stuns, which have obvious PvP implications. We are pretty confident this will not nerf pallies into the ground as I facetiously promised yesterday, but if we overdid it, we’ll be happy to back off some of the changes.

    On the other hand, maybe we’ll see fewer BGs with 20 paladins on the opposing side and can get some reasonable feedback on all the other classes in the game.

    To clarify the new dot will not break Repentance.

    Repentence will be changed not to break on the new Righteous Vengeance dot.

    Art of War was NOT majorly buffed. The damage should remain the same over time, but fewer gigantic crits. It will be something like +4 / 8% damage (instead of +10 / 20% crit), which should be the same overall assuming a crit rate of around 40%.

    Righteous Vengeance was majorly buffed to make up for the Divine Storm nerf. It should end up at something like 10% of the crit damage each tick for 4 ticks of 2 seconds each (+40% and 8 sec total).

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    WotLK Build 9014

    Build 9014 seems to be following the trend of shafting Holy once again, with the nerf to Divine Plea further incapacitating Holy’s healing ability when casted. Now totally reducing the healing by 100% as well as prolonging the period of cast time, I don’t think any Healadin is going to be very excited about this change at all. Other changes to the Holy trees aren’t any exciting as well. A slight buff to Judgements of the Pure, which I’m not sure if many cares anyway… As well as a nerf to Infusion of the Light.

    Retribution gets more goodie again this time with the buff to Judgement of the Wise, further enhancing the mana restoring capability to obviously… squeeze out even more dps pve or pvp wise. However, it no longer scales with mana pool but instead base mana. This further eliminates the possibility of any Retadins wanting to gem for +int now.

    There are some changes to the Paladin glyphs as included in this build as well. Have a look. :)

    Build 9014 Changes - Quoted from MMO-Champion (Source)

    Holy

    • Divine Plea changed to : You gain 25% of your total mana over 15 sec (Old - 10 sec), but the amount healed by your spells is reduced by 100%. (Old - 50%)
    • Judgements of the Pure now lasts 1 minute. (Up from 30 seconds)
    • Infusion of the Light now reduces the cast time of your next Holy Light spell by 0.5/1sec. (Down from 1.25/2.5 sec)

    Retribution

    • Judgement of the Wise has been changed to grant you 33% of your base mana instead of 20% of your maximum mana.

    Glyphs

    • Glyph of Exorcism - Your Exorcism also interrupts spellcasting for 2 sec.
    • Glyph of Flash of Light - Your Flash of Light heals for 50% less initially, but also heals for 140% (down from 200%) of its inital effect over 15 sec.
    • Glyph of the Warhorse - Removed
    • Glyph of the Wise - Reduces the mana cost of your Seal of Wisdom spell by 50%.

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    Blue: Retribution’s DPS Will Be Comparable To Rogues

    Following the overhaul of the class and new philosophy being implemented onto WotLK, one might wonder whether Retadins dps will be on-par with other dps classes per Blizzard’s design. Here are 2 posts by Ghostcrawler that would clarify things a little for you.

    In short, not exactly on-par, but Retadins dps will still be comparable somewhat with other pure DPS classes like rogues.

    Posted by Ghostcrawler (Source)

    Ret should be as close to the top as anyone else. Our buckets at this point are basically DPS, Tanks, Healers. When the tank and healer are doing dps, it’s even closer.

    You may be a couple hundred dps lower than a pure dps class (hunter, mage, warlock, rogue) but for most players, the numbers will be close enough that a raid with a good Retadin and an okay rogue will see Ret on top.

    This is a change in philosophy from the BC era, where we would engineer hybrid classes to be 25% to 30% and sometimes much lower than dps classes.

    Posted by Ghostcrawler (Source)

    If there are dps differences, it’s going to take a very, very skilled guild to be able to accuately decipher them. That is because a boss is not a training dummy. For almost all of us, it’s going to be impossible to tell whether the rogue doing 2500 dps and the paladin doing 2300 dps is because of the class or the player. And it is likely to be a different number on the very next boss.

    We’re trying to hedge out bets and NOT promise that every class will do 2500 dps in all cases, because that just won’t happen. There are too many other variables. But you won’t be far below other classes… as you often were in BC and Classic WoW.

    If your guild fills up with 10 rogues instead of taking you, that either means your guild leaders are misinformed or you just need to L2P a little more. :)

    Again, this is a goal. If a month after we ship someone discovers that the best way to play a mage is to get some obscure combination of trinket, set bonus, enchant and flask that allows them to do 3500 dps at no mana cost, well that’s clearly not the kind of thing we expected to see and we’ll take steps to adjust it. We have a lot of clever players though, and it’s going to take some time before everything has been fully explored.

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    WotLK Build 8982; Finally Some Spell Interrupt Goodie

    This build’s highlight has got to be the new utility added onto Hammer of Justice, which now allows all Paladins to interrupt spell casting for 3-second upon casting that stun. This arguably has more impact in PVE than in PVP since HoJ is pretty much useless against most bosses… the added effect would now make it desirable to put it back onto your action bar when you’re raiding. PVP though, while you might think that a 6-second stun is enough to interrupt all spell casting, the added utility will still be very useful in case of a stun being resisted etc. Plus now mages can’t really blink the moment you stun them can they (not very sure here, someone please confirm for me)? *evil grin* Time to give them some well-deserved spanking!

    Other updates include nerfs to our seals yet again. Also some talents in Retribution tree have been unnerfed and back to their original state. I suppose what happened was that, Blizzard reviewed the numbers and didn’t think that nerfing them did any good anyways. Then proceeded into nerfing the seals even more while unnerfing Fanaticism as well as 2-handed weapon specialization.

    Like previously mentioned, Shield of Righteousness has also been nerfed and is now confirmed via the notes.

    Finally, Holy is yet again… hardly receiving any updates. Is Blizzard going to look at them really?

    Posted by MMO-Champion (Source)

    Retribution

    • Seal of Command now gives the Paladin a chance to deal [ 56% of Max. Weap. Damage ] to [ 56% of Min. Weap. Damage. ] additional Holy damage. (Old - [ 70% of Max. Weap. Damage ] to [ 70% of Min. Weap. Damage. ])
    • Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 19.2% of AP + 9.6% of Spell Power ] additional Holy Damage over 15 sec. (Down from [ 23.4% of AP + 11.4% of Spell Power ])
    • Seal of Corruption now deals [ 19.2% of AP + 9.6% of Spell Power ] additional Holy Damage over 15 sec. (Down from [ 23.4% of AP + 11.4% of Spell Power ])
    • Seal of the Martyr now deals [ 28% of Min. Weap. Damage. ] to [ 28% of Max. Weap. Damage ]. (Down from [ 35% of Min. Weap. Damage. ] to [ 35% of Max. Weap. Damage ] )
    • Seal of Blood now deals [ 28% of Min. Weap. Damage. ] to [ 28% of Max. Weap. Damage ]. (Down from [ 35% of Min. Weap. Damage. ] to [ 35% of Max. Weap. Damage ] )
    • Fanaticism now increases the critical chance of judgements capable of critical hits by 5/10/15/20/25%. (Up from 4/8/12/16/20%)
    • 2-Handed Weapon Specialization now Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 2/4/6%. (Up from 1/2/3%)

    Holy

    • Melee hits do not refresh the spell’s duration of Judgement of Light and Judgement of Wisdom anymore.

    Protection

    • Shield of Righteousness now deals holy damage equal to your block value plus 300. (Old - 240% of your block value)
    • Greater Blessing of Sanctuary typo fixed, now properly labeled as giving the target 10 rage, 20 runic power, or 2% of maximum mana when they block, parry, or dodge a melee attack.
    • Hammer of Justice now also interrupts the spellcasting for 3 seconds on all ranks.
    • Melee hit do not refresh the spell duration of Judgement of Justice anymore

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    WotLK Beta Build 8970

    Just some minor tweaks to the class, with a little bit of nerfs to Retribution tree. I wonder if the damage output of Rets still that great that Blizzard has to keep looking at ways to lower it? Or is this just a fix to minimize our burst potential?

    Anyway, here you go…

    8970 Paladin Changes - Posted by MMO-Champion (Source)

    Holy

    • Beacon of Light now lasts 1 minute.

    Retribution

    • Fanaticism critical strike chance of all Judgements capable of a critical hit reduced to 4/8/12/16/20% (Down from 5/10/15/20/25%).
    • Two-Handed Weapon Specialization now increases your damage with 2H weapons by 1/2/3%. (Down from 2/4/6%)

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    Blue Post On The Roles/Directions Of The Paladin Class

    If you are like this gentleman, wondering what are the roles or directions of the Paladin class before deciding whether we are at the right track, then here’s a useful blue response to you. I remember long long time ago that Blizzard was so tight-lipped about the roles of Paladins when asked, sure is nice seeing a major improvement in that department.

    I get depressed reading other class forums - Posted by Lighthammer (Source)

    People need to know what direction the class is moving towards. People don’t know what to fight for or what to fight towards. Moving from “leveling class”, “cleansbot”, “buffbot”, and “healbot” to “subpar arena”, “subpar tanking”, “subpar healing”, and “subpar DPS”, people are confused on what they are supposed to be doing and how they are to be done. Is there a trade off in utility and DPS? Is niche tanking supposed to be the intended path? Even in WotLK?

    Posted by Ghostcrawler (Source)

    I actually think you know what direction the class is moving towards, because you know your class. But I’ll try and pontificate here for a moment if that’s helpful.

    Protection — We want more tanks in the game. Main tanks. We think it’s fun to have a diversity of players and see how different spells, abilities and class mechanics get used to solve problems. A Protadin with the right skill and gear should be able to tank any fight in the game. Previously, we tried to push Prot into the offtank and AE tank roles. While your abilities are still really well suited for AE in particular, overall our philosophy has changed and we want you to be able to do anything the other tanks do. Note that this means other tanks will get better at AE tanking though. Prot represents a special challenge when not tanking because you can both heal and do dps and some players want to do either. Or both. One final comment, that you have already seen, is we want you to gear like a warrior: collect Strengh and Stam and use tanking weapons instead of caster weapons.

    Retribution — You’re a melee dps class, and one of only a handful of classes that can fill the “mana battery” role. With the changes to the way raid buffs work, we are blurring the lines a lot more between “pure” dps classes and hybrids that have the potential to respec if their dps doesn’t work out. But we don’t penalize classes for having awesome buffs the way we used to. Also remember that one of Ret’s big limitations before was just getting in the group with the good melee buffs. That problem is solved. If you’re good and know your stuff cold, you should be able to be up there with the rogues and hunters. Maybe not every fight, but not 500 dps below them either.

    Holy — You’re still the best high-throughput, single target healer in the game. I suspect you’re still going to get called on to heal the tank a lot. Holy was in a really good place in BC, so much so that other healers (probably priests more than anyone else) began to get overshadowed. To shift things back a little, as well to just challenge the player base, we introduced a lot more fights with AE damage and movement. Unfortunately, those mechanics hit Holy. Hard. At the same time, CoH and CH seemed to be able to handle any encounter. Beacon of Light isn’t a panacea to solve all of those problems, but it is designed to help. It still needs a little work, but I think the basic spell design is sound.

    One thing that has been mentioned is that the three paladin trees feel pretty separated from each other. We’ve gotten better in some other classes of making it a valid choice to go deeper into a second tree, and not just to get a single, incredible talent, but because there is some legitimate synergy there. It’s going to be harder to get that feeling for the paladin than it is for the mage, but it is something we want to mess with some more after Lich King.

    Obviously beyond the individual trees, we completely redid the whole seal and judgment system. We think it works pretty well, but we’re just going to have to play with it some more to find the rough spots.

    I realize I haven’t talked a lot about PvP, because it’s a very big topic… and this is already pretty long… and I’m always encouraging players to be more succinct. Anyway. We suspect we changed the landscape quite a bit in PvP with all of our changes and we’re waiting for it to shake out a little more. It’s much harder to theorycraft PvP.

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    Shock and Awe: The Art of Dual Shockadins in WotLK

    Given the interest shown for my previous two posts regarding Shockadins, I have decided to keep the proverbial wheels turning and offer up yet another perspective on the potential of this spec come WotLK.  As always, please feel free to post comments and ask questions.

    If you’ll recall, J referred us to a rather entertaining video of dual Shockadins breaking into the 2000s during Season 3.  It would be inaccurate to claim this video as the first instance of entertainment regarding the spec but I certainly would go as far as to say it acted as forum-wide eye-opener for those having never experienced or even seen this particular build.  I can say, with the utmost of certainty, that I’ll never be able to part with the lingering vision of watching an MS Warrior, in perfect line of sight of his Druid partner, fall to the ground within 3 seconds of witnessing the wings of Avenging Wrath suddenly extending from the backs of his Shockadin enemies.  The Druid, with Nature’s Swiftness still sitting idly on his buff bar, stood in disbelief 20 yards away.

    Shock and awe indeed…

    Today, let’s evaluate the future of this combination and gauge whether or not its potential will remain in tact upon the arrival of November 13, 2008.

    Upon achieving level 80, the Shockadin will essentially have four sources of instant damage at their disposal:

    • Judgement
    • Holy Shock
    • Hammer of Wrath
    • Shield of the Righteous

    Although the first three are certainly applicable, we can rule out Shield of the Righteous as its damage is directly tied to the Paladin’s block value - a statistic which will be largely if not entirely absent from a Shockadin.  The remainder of this post will then evaluate both Judgement and Holy Shock from both Shockadins and gauge the potential for a swift kill on an opponent.  I am purposely omitting Hammer of Wrath as it can be used only as a “finisher” and, although it can inflict significant damage, will not be part of initial burst of a Shockadin (I have always defined burst as the amount of damage one can cause within the span of no more than 3 seconds).

    First, let’s take the build from my previous post:

    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVAzxbzhVzZZVfMtbIzfMox

    Evaluating Holy Shock first, we have the following modifiers for the spell:

    1. Healing Light (12%)
    2. Crusade (6%)
    3. Sanctified Retribution (2%)
    4. Vengeance (9%)

    In total then, we will see a 29% increase in damage for Holy Shock after spell power has attributed its own effect to the spell.  To demonstrate this, I’ve done some research and come across the level 80 Arena set for Paladins:  http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?itemset=767.  To begin, let’s take a look at this full gearset including the honor pieces (note:  at the time of this post, I am unable to get the wowhead tooltips working properly so you’ll just have to follow the links):

    For the two trinket slots, let’s assume 200 spell power in total and for a weapon and shield let’s assume 500 spell power in total.  Both of these assumptions are based off of items I found in the WotLK database at WoWhead situated around an item level of 200 (the item level which seems to be the base for epics at level 80).  In addition to these two assumptions, I am going to neglect enchants, inscriptions, glyphs and any other sort of enhancements to spell power either directly or indirectly with the lone exception of gems.  As far as gems are concerned, I will omit the meta socket of the helm but will gem entirely for spell damage otherwise.  Allowing for these statements, we then arrive at the following spell power total based upon the gear above:

    • 1528 spell power - from gear alone
    • 207 spell power- from 9 gem slots at 23 spell power each (Runed Cardinal Ruby)

    So in total, we will have 1735 spell power.  Knowing this, let’s take a look at what this means for Holy Shock and Judgement when combined with the aforementioned modifications:

    As I’ve mentioned in previous posts, Holy Shock has a maximum base of 1047 damage at level 80.  Since it is instant cast, it utilizes the 42.86% coefficient for spell power.  Running those numbers, we arrive at the following:

    • 1047 + (1745 * .4286) = 1795 maximum base damage after spell power

    Now let’s add in the modifications:

    • 1795 * 1.12 (Healing Light) ==> 2010
    • 2010 * 1.06 (Crusade) ==> 2131
    • 2131 * 1.02 (Sanctified Retribution) ==> 2174
    • 2174 * 1.09 (Vengeance) ==> 2370

    With that done let’s factor in Avenging Wrath:

    • 2370 * 1.20 ==> 2844

    Lastly, let’s take into account the user of Divine Favor to force a critical strike:

    • 2844 * 1.50 ==> 4266

    What this shows us is that, omitting any mitigation by resilience, we have a maximum potential for 4266 on a Holy Shock critical strike.  With this proven, let’s move on to Judgement.

    Although the Judgement system has undergone extensive change when contrasted with its existence currently, we still need only consider the damage caused as a result of having Seal of Righteousness active when one of the three Judgements is cast.  For this type of Judgement, we have the following modifications to make:

    1. Seals of the Pure (15%)
    2. Crusade (6%)
    3. Sanctified Retribution (2%)
    4. Vengeance (9%)
    5. The Art of War (20% critical strike bonus)

    Take straight from the description of Seal of Righteousness on wowhead, the formula used for its Judgement effect is as follows:

    • 1 + 0.25 * AP + 0.4 * SPH

    where AP = Attack Power and SPH = Holy Spell Power.  Granted a Shockadin’s attack power will be very low, let’s at least assume 400.  For spell power, we can use the calculated value from above of 1745.  Now that we’ve got our initial values, let’s crunch the numbers:

    • 1 + 0.25 * 400 + 0.4 * 1745 = 799 maximum base damage after attack and spell power

    With a base of 799 to work with, let’s now consider our first four modifications:

  • 799 * 1.15 (Seals of the Pure) ==> 919
  • 919 * 1.06 (Crusade) ==> 974
  • 974 * 1.02 (Sanctified Retribution) ==> 993
  • 993 * 1.09 (Vengeance) ==> 1084
  • Throwing Avenging Wrath into the mix we have:

    • 1084 * 1.20 = 1301

    Lastly, let’s consider a critical strike.  For this consideration, however, there are two points of interest.  The first is that Judgement of Righteousness is considered a spell thus it is does 150% damage upon achieving a critical hit.  The second is that we are receiving a 20% bonus to this 150% to bring it to 170%.  This leaves us with the following upon critically striking:

    • 1301 * 1.7 = 2212

    Now that we are finished with the calculations for Judgement of Righteousness, let’s put it and Holy Shock together for a traditional Shockadin burst combo:

    • [0.0] Pop Avenging Wrath, Divine Favor and cast Holy Shock (4266 damage)
    • [0.5] GCD from Holy Shock
    • [1.0] GCD from Holy Shock
    • [1.5]Judge Righteousness (2212 damage)

    Now, we must consider mitigation.  Since both Judgement of Righteousness and Holy Shock are consider as Holy spell damage, neither can be mitigated by armor or resistances.  As a result, the only form of mitigation possible, other than through class-specific talents or possibly certain glyphs, is through resilience.  Obviously, this form of mitigation only applies to critical strikes in our case thus we can run the math from that point.  Although the amount of rating required to reach the resilience cap will be a great deal higher at level 80 due to statistic scaling, it is currently assumed that resilience will still max out at 25% critical strike damage reduction as it is on live servers today.  Running with this assumption, we can simply subtract out 25% worth of the critical strike calculations for both Holy Shock and Judgement of Righteousness as follows:

    • 2844 * 1.25 (instead of 1.5) ==> 3555 damage from Holy Shock
    • 1301 * 1.45 (instead of 1.7) ==> 1886 damage from Judgement of Righteousness

    What we have now shown is that, against a target of capped resilience at level 80, one Shockadin will be able to unload a maximum of 5441(3555 + 1886) damage within 1.5 seconds.  It then follows that two, equally-geared Shockadins will be able to unload 10882 (5441 * 2) damage within that same 1.5 second interval.  As a reminder, this value does not include any enchants, inscriptions, glyphs, buffs, popped trinkets or even a meta gem.  Additionally, it does nottake into account any debuffs that may be associated with the target such as a Warrior sitting in Berserker stance (10% more damage taken).  As a result, one can easily expect damage output superior to that which we have calculated.

    To close out this post, I leave you with the following story:

    Two Paladins walk into the Ruins of Lordaeron, both bearing a mace and a shield.  Across the way, a Warrior appears but stops shy of the central tomb.  Hesitantly, he reaches back and wiggles his nails against the far side of his scalp in utter confusion.  Now standing aside the tomb themselves, the Paladins stand shoulder to shoulder and, in complete unison, motion for the Warrior to approach them.  Licking his lips, the Warrior unsheathes the most devastating weapon of war seen to date and charges abruptly over top of the tomb.  In an instant, wings emerge from the back of each Paladin and runic symbols flutter defiantly above their heads.  The Warrior falls to his knees in debilitating pain as a Druid appears from the shadows.  Just as the Druid’s hands begin to emit a translucent green hue, two crystalline hammers materialize out of nothingness and strike downward in a resonating symphony upon the Warrior’s kneeling form.  He falls lifeless to the cobbled floor only a a second and half following his initial engagement. 

    The Druid, out of sheer awe and wonderment at what has been displayed, implodes within himself and emerges a wisp defiantly exhibiting a clouded and transparent middle finger aimed in the Paladins’ direction.

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